Sabaton – Joakim Brodén

Sweden’s metal pride Sabaton are fast becoming one of the biggest metal acts on the planet. Formed back in 1999, Sabaton began their illustrious career after famed Swedish born producer and musician Peter Tägtgren recorded the band’s debut album Fist To Fight in his famous Swedish studio, ‘The Abyss’. Sabaton went on to sign with the world’s most recognisable metal label Nuclear Blast Records after releasing their acclaimed fifth studio album Coat of Arms. Since then Sabaton have founded their own music festival in their hometown of Falun, Sweden, and supported metal giant’s Iron Maiden in Europe and America, headlined Wacken Open Air, and performed at Poland’s Woodstock festival in front of half a million people. Don’t believe me? Watch the video below.

The Swedish war machine has since built a solid fan base across Europe, America, the United Kingdom and Australia, receiving countless accolades and top selling albums. This year sees Sabaton bring forth their brand new seventh studio release Heroes. Again, with the help of producer and long time friend, Peter Tägtgren. Sabaton have encapsulated their trademark battle driven sounds with new members Chris Rörland, Thobbe Englund and Hannes van Dahl, alongside the band’s formidable alumni, Joakim Brodén and Pär Sundström.

Unlike the band’s previous releases which concentrated on the large battalions and armies of various battles throughout the 21st century, Sabaton has since changed its direction for the new album on the heroics of various individuals from across the globe who sacrificed their lives to save complete strangers in some of the most terrifying and bloody battles during World War II. Some of these people include a Polish-born solider who forged documents to voluntarily be imprisoned in Auschwitz concentration camp to show the world the atrocities coming from within. Furthermore, to an Australian stretcher bearer who was awarded the US Silver Star for rescuing 12 wounded American soldiers on Mount Tambu during the Papua New Guinea campaign.

Before Heroes was released to the world, Metal Obsession had the pleasure to speak with Sabaton frontman, Joakim Brodén, about the new album. Our conversation started with typical pleasantries and exchanging banter about the weather. “The weather in Sweden has been pretty crappy here lately,” says Joakim. I informed Joakim that much was the same here in Melbourne, Australia. “Really! I think you’re lying [laughs]. It was so amazing when we toured with Nightwish” he added. Back in February last year Sabaton supported Finnish symphonic metal band Nightwish across Australia.

Joakim Brodén performing with Sabaton in Melbourne on their 2013 Australian tour.

Once pleasantries were over I asked Joakim if he believed the new line up consisting of guitarists Chris Rörland and Thobbe Englund, and drummer Hannes van Dahl, would be the fundamental line-up.

Joakim replied, “I do certainly hope so. I honestly can say I haven’t had this much fun doing heavy metal in a very long time [laughs]. I was a little worried at first. I had the biggest performance anxiety attack ever and I never want to go through that shit again. I’m the main song writer of Sabaton. I’ve been writing every song, either by myself or with someone since the beginning. Some people don’t know this. A lot of people thought that the old members wrote the material even though they never wrote a note. The problem was that if I fail, everyone would blame Hannes, Thorjen, and Chris, which would be really, really wrong. It was that or people saying ‘the old Sabaton was better. These guys don’t have it’. That was the toughest thing for me because I certainly didn’t want to do the same album that we already did. Plus, you can’t go experimental or wild because that could potentially be the wrong move in our career to do that, if you know what I mean?”

Back in 2012 Sabaton released Carolus Rex, a concept album (of sorts) which was based on the Swedish Empire during the 17th century. I asked Joakim whether the album was a bold move in his eyes as an experimental album. Joakim replied “In regards to Carolus Rex that was still with the original members, but that wasn’t a major factor, [however] it was still in the back of my head. I didn’t want to go too wild because people would have hated it. Because if I go wild Chris, Thorjen, and Hannes pay the price, and that wouldn’t be right.”

Continuing on with the release of Heroes I was interested to know if it was always Joakim’s intention to concentrate on the individual, rather than the majority of the war.

Joakim states “I really don’t know to be honest. But I do know that we had this idea back in 2009, I believe. I remember it quite well. Pär and I started to discuss some subject matter during the writing process for Coat of Arms, which was some time ago and we were writing the lyrics for ‘White Death’ which is about a Finnish sniper named Simo Häyhä. That was a little similar to the material on this new album, as it concentrates more on the achievements of one individual than the big picture of the winter war between Finland and the Soviet Union. When dealing with individuals such as this, it’s hard to match the music with the lyrics, but once I got over it, the emotional connection towards music and lyrics become quite strong. I think it’s something we have had in the back of our minds which we have been wanting to do for a while.”

Since its release Heroes has received some notable achievements, including peaking at #1 on the Swedish music charts, #2 on the Finnish music charts, and #3 on the German music charts; as well as receiving honourable positions on various music charts worldwide. Sabaton have released their first single “To Hell and Back” which details the exploits of America’s most decorated war veteran, Audie Murphy.

When dealing with something as sensitive as war, one would obviously feel a sense of empathy or anger towards a certain faction, leader or individual. I asked Joakim if he believed the general audience would be able to separate their own beliefs and see these ‘heroes’ as a reflection of society during that time period.

Joakim replied quite confidentially, “We want to tell stories, not sell propaganda [laughs]. But on a serious note, I do believe everyone can learn a thing or two from history. What made this album so interesting for us was that each of these people did something very unique. Take for example Witold Pilecki from the song ‘Inmate 4859’. He forged documents deliberately to infiltrate Auschwitz  to gather evidence and show the rest of the world what was going on inside. While another guy refused orders to shoot down enemy planes because the planes that were shot by enemy fire were already severally damaged, and instead escorted them to safety. And of course we have this Australian guy Leslie “Bull” Allan who was a stretcher bearer in the Pacific theatre of WWII who saved several wounded American soldiers on Mount Tambu.”

With an expanded knowledge of history, and one well educated individual, Joakim continues on to say, “People as individuals are extremely more intelligent than everyone gives them credit for; while as a group, most groups are stupid. You know, masses of people. They are not really at the top of their game and tend not to think before they speak. Majority of the time I’m not worried about offending people, but if it were the case and we were somehow hurting someone’s feelings, we probably would have been asked not to sing about war at all.  I don’t necessarily think people will be offended, but as soon as we start censoring ourselves, well, not so much censoring, but choosing not to tell some stories that we think could be interesting because it may offend the Germans, for example. Well, that train passed the station a long time ago! [laughs] But if we were asked not to bring up a subject that could potentially offend someone, we would still write it. Because that is essentially a political statement. If we only tell what the British or the Americans want to hear then we are essentially picking and choosing on the basis of offending a nation. In that sense if we tell a story and a country is offended it’s not our fault. We are merely telling the story of what happened. It’s usually that country’s own fault if they have something to be ashamed of.”

War can certainly bring out the worst in people, but it can also make heroes of the most unlikely people. I asked Joakim if he and Pär ever considered including civilians of war like Elie Wiesel – a prisoner of Hitler’s death camp Auschwitz – who survived and wrote of his experience in the book, “Night”; Anne Frank, who wrote “The Diary of a Young Girl”, which details the young girl’s exploits in hiding for two years with her family during the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands; or Oskar Schindler, a German industrialist who saved over 1,000 Jewish lives during the Holocaust. Many people would know the deeds of the latter thanks to the Steven Spielberg film released in 1993, Schindler’s List.

Joakim spoke of the writing process with eagerness. “Yeah, definitely! We actually had a big discussion about this, Pär and I. We discussed it a lot and both agreed it would be an interesting idea. There was actually a Swedish guy named Raoul Wallenberg, who made fake passports for Jewish people so they wouldn’t get sent to concentration camps, and Schindler of course. But in the end we decided it wasn’t a good idea. We want to concentrate solely on the military aspect because as soon as we get to the civilians of war it may start raising a lot more questions. Obviously, I’ve read these peoples stories and I do care for them, but I don’t necessarily believe we should sing about them because it’s more emotional. There is a lot of anger and hatred in war, but there is also a lot of joy and happiness when winning a battle. That is something you can relate to, as every day is a battle.”

I probed further and ask Joakim if there was someone in particular he really wanted to bring out into the open. Joakim replied, “We actually had quite a few people. I think we could have made two more Heroes albums if we wanted too. [laughs] But we are very picky when picking the music to the right lyrics. I mean, we take this to extreme lengths. There were stories that we really wanted to tell, but we honestly couldn’t make the music fit with those lyrics quite right. I still have songs that were written many years ago that aren’t quite done yet and I never rush a song if you know what I mean. I always take the time it takes to complete it. Take for example the song “Cliffs of Gallipoli”. I wrote that song in 2005 and it didn’t see the light of day ’til 2008. I actually have the song for Pearl Harbor which I’ve been writing since 2006 which I still haven’t finished. The same went for writing Heroes. We had about four songs that Pär and I were quite sure would make it to the album, but they were eventually all removed because they didn’t fit the final stages of the album.”

Throughout our conversation Joakim brought up Leslie “Bull” Allan, an Australian born stretcher bearer in WWII who saved 12 American lives on Mount Tambu in Papua New Guinea. However, some sources state Leslie Allan saved 18 wounded soldiers. Leslie Allan was awarded the American Silver Star, the highest earned for a non-American, yet he was not awarded or recognised for his efforts in his own country. While most stories reflecting on World War II consist of the European and Pacific theatres, namely those of American and European soldiers, it was refreshing to see an Australian solider honoured for his heroic deeds. I asked Joakim how he discovered Leslie Allan.

Joakim states, “We weren’t necessarily focusing on specific countries, but the heroics of individuals from individual countries. We didn’t necessarily choose Leslie Allan or Australia. I discovered him because of his actions. He may not have done it Rambo-style with guns blazing, but coming from a non combat point of view was the interesting aspect of his story. I found it a bit strange that he was awarded the American Silver Star, but was never decorated for his efforts in Australia.” Joakim continued on to say, “There sadly wasn’t much information about him, but I believe the short documentary you watched may have been the same one I discovered and was the beginning of the lyrics for ‘Ballad of Bull’.”

I found it quite funny that a singer of a Swedish heavy metal band knows more about Australia’s history than most of the general public in this country. Joakim replies with a hearty laugh, “I wouldn’t go as far as saying that, but I do have a better understanding of history than most average Joe’s. In no way am I an expert, but it’s similar with Pär. We write lyrics on an amateur historian level, if you know what I mean? We consume a lot of information about each topic we choose to sing about because I have no interest in singing about every single piece of detail when it comes to certain things. But when it comes to an important individual it is important to know everything.”

Times have changed when it comes to knowing your history. I told Joakim of my adolescent education and being taught about Australia’s involvement in the war. But it seems nowadays a lot of people choose not to believe Australia was a part of the war, and honestly don’t care because it doesn’t affect them. Knowing your history is an important part of separating yourself from social, religious and political agendas which are usually the reason behind wars in the first place.

Joakim acknowledged openly, “I know what you mean. It’s quite comfortable for some people to ignore certain things in history so they don’t hurt someone’s feelings or whatever. I know exactly what you mean, though. It’s easier for people to pretend it didn’t happen than come to the realisation that it did. We actually have the same problem in Europe here as well. But around here there seems to be a conflict about to happen every couple of weeks and there are news reports comparing it to what happened not so long ago. Not so long ago we had the Yugoslavia war, the Bosnian War, and many others. You know these things are happening at our doorstep. Remember as well that the Cold War went on for quite some time. I think in comparison, Australia should be very lucky they don’t have major conflicts, but I would hate to know what the British did to Australians during the time settlement began.” Joakim then went on to say, “However, times are changing. I’m sure [that for] most of the German soldiers who went to war on September 1st 1939, what they heard was that Poland attacked first and we need to counter attack. If you’re 19 years old in the army and a General tells you a Polish solider has killed our people and now we have to make them pay, of course they will believe them. You basically put your utmost trust into people like Adolf Hitler and Joseph Goebbels, but today if an army makes a catastrophic mistake the whole world will know about it. War is just as much about PR today as it was years ago. As sick as it may sound, thanks to mass media, YouTube, and social media, it’s real hard to be a complete asshole in war. No country wants that bad publicity because no one will want to deal with them. Take for example the situation going on in Crimea. A lot of people are like, “Is that a new thing? When did this war start?”. Okay! Let’s look at this. Country ‘A’ have a lot of citizens living in country ‘B’, so country ‘A’ decides to take a part of country ‘B’.” This is how fucking World War II started! From an historical point of view no one has learned anything!”

Joakim then went on to express his appreciation for history. “To be honest, I’d much prefer to discuss history in a bar with metalheads or not. I don’t want to talk about what is right or wrong, but I can always learn something new from talking to other people.”

As mentioned previously, Sabaton toured Australia in early 2013 with Finnish symphonic metal band Nightwish. During their trek across the country, Sabaton were introduced to a new legion of fans, amazing weather and an abundance of beer that would bring shame to the rest of the world. While perusing the bands bio when given an advanced copy of the album for review, I took note that the next three years from now until 2016 were locked in for a world wide tour. Without hesitation I asked Joakim if Sabaton would return to Australia.

Joakim replied, “Yes we are! I can’t give you a specific date or year as there is a lot of things that need to be sorted out. We have some big news to announce, but we can’t say much now. But Australia is definitely a part of our big plans. I don’t want to say we will be coming until everything is locked in as I don’t want to upset our Australian fans.”

It seems Sabaton have taken a page from touring juggernauts Iron Maiden and Metallica by hitting every corner of the globe, expanding upon their already massive following. Sabaton have followed this formula since the release of Carolus Rex, performing multiple headline shows across Europe and America, headlining Wacken Open Air, and performing in front of half a million people at Poland’s Woodstock festival which was immortalised on the Swedish Empire Live DVD released last year. I asked Joakim how he feels about the new touring life style.

Joakim states, “That was the reason why the previous members of Sabaton wanted to leave. It was the touring which affected the other guys. It was very hard for us to go our separate ways, but now I think it is the best thing to happen to not only Sabaton, but also Oskar, Rikard, Daniel Mÿhr and Daniel Mullback. They’re very much still doing heavy metal which is quite good if I do say so with their band Civil War. But they can tour at their own pace and be at home with family like they wanted. We on the other hand can go all in [laughs], if you know what I mean. Even though it was emotionally quite tough at the time, as I said before I haven’t had this much fun doing heavy metal in a very long time. Of course times do get tough when you have a fever or the flu, but if there is nothing like that to get in the way I enjoy every aspect of it. I personally wouldn’t do anything else.”

In relation to the previous members going their own separate way, I made reference to when Kai Hansen left Helloween to begin Gamma Ray for similar reasons. Joakim replied “Definitely! I personally see it as a parallel with Accept. Sure, it sucked that Udo left Accept, but now I have two great bands to listen to [laughs].

Before we finished the interview, I usually ask the interviewee if they have any famous last words to say. Joakim laughs and stated with an energetic response, “I have one! How do I get a permanent residency to live in Australia? I would love to retire there. Obviously that is a long time away, but I’m seriously considering retiring to Australia. I’ve never been to a place where I have met so many happy people, and I like happy people. It seems right now Australia is in the lead for places I want to retire to, but I need papers first [laughs]. I would love to do some vacationing after the Heroes tour is complete. I want to be far, far away from work related stuff and just sit and relax.” Quick to the punchline, I told Joakim he could be ‘Far From The Fame’ (if you bought the new album you will obviously get the joke) when he eventually takes a well deserved holiday in Australia. We both laughed, continued to reflect on the Australian tour, and then finally said our goodbyes.

Heroes is now available in Australia via JB Hifi and worldwide via Nuclear Blast Records and Amazon.com.

‘Heroes’ out now via Nuclear Blast Records

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